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Daily General Discussion – September 4, 2021

**Welcome to the Daily General Discussion on Ethfinance**

[https://imgur.com/PolSbWl](https://imgur.com/PolSbWl) **Doot! Doot!** ๐Ÿš‚ ๐Ÿš‚

Thanks for the Party Train Awards/Gold/Coins. These coins are used to award the top 3 or so contributors who make the Daily Doots Monday through Friday.

This sub is for financial and tech talk about Ethereum (ETH) and (ERC-20) tokens running on Ethereum.

* [Massive List of Ethereum Links!](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/k098s1/hey_ethfinance_lets_make_a_list_of_links/)
* [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/about/rules/)
* [Discord](https://discord.gg/Q7VENsS)
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Be awesome to one another.

**Ethereum 2.0 Launchpad / Contract**

We acknowledge this canonical Eth2 deposit contract & launchpad URL, check multiple sources.

0x00000000219ab540356cBB839Cbe05303d7705Fa
https://launchpad.ethereum.org/

**Ethereum 2.0 Clients**

The following is a list of Ethereum 2.0 clients. [Learn more about Ethereum 2.0 and when it will launch](https://ethereum.org/en/eth2/)

|Client|Github (Code / Releases)|Discord|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Teku|[ConsenSys/teku](https://github.com/ConsenSys/teku/releases)|[Teku Discord](https://discord.gg/7hPv2T6)|
|Prysm|[prysmaticlabs/prysm](https://github.com/prysmaticlabs/prysm/releases)|[Prysm Discord](https://discord.gg/KSA7rPr)|
|Lighthouse|[sigp/lighthouse](https://github.com/sigp/lighthouse/releases)|[Lighthouse Discord](https://discord.gg/cyAszAh)|
|Nimbus|[status-im/nimbus-eth2](https://github.com/status-im/nimbus-eth2/releases)|[Nimbus Discord](https://discord.com/invite/XRxWahP)|

**PSA: Without your mnemonic, your ETH2 funds are** [**GONE**](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethstaker/comments/k5kmnz/psa_without_your_mnemonic_your_eth2_funds_are_gone/)

**Daily Doots Thread #1** [**Archive**](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/kewj8d/2020_daily_doots_master_thread/)

**Daily Doots Thread #2** [**Archive**](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/o0v9l1/daily_doots_thread_2_stardate_june_15th_2021/?)

[https://gitcoin.co/hackathon/dgov/onboard](https://gitcoin.co/hackathon/dgov/onboard) – Work with top DAOs and tooling [https://gitcoin.co/hackathon/open-defi-2/onboard](https://gitcoin.co/hackathon/open-defi-2/onboard) – Tons of bounties from DeFi projects like Badger, Cream, 1inch, and many more.

EY New York Regional Summit September 14th: [Register Here](https://web.cvent.com/event/faedcbfe-0012-4225-bda1-ad6b319c4c7e/confirmation:1c323c90-90ef-45ed-9bc9-146db4f5c881?rt=LpFxVMfU7kSWAVW4sUhA7g&mkt_tok=NTIwLVJYUC0wMDMAAAF-1-uUT4yvBFKGb0GI9m1CbIwv2UowL4NOGzeyuUWCYkAv6qV0DypWhZNzUp_fzR3NKVByIWNrA8yOTQQ4-FQ)

๐ŸŸ EthFinance DAI Pod on PoolTogether [https://ethfinance.win/](https://ethfinance.win/) ๐Ÿณ (not endorsed by Moderator team. Use at your own risk)

[https://buildspace.so/solidity](https://buildspace.so/solidity) – “Build your own epic Web3 app in 2-weeks with Solidity smart contracts deployed to Ethereum’s blockchain”

What do you think?

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31 Comments

  1. NFT discords are hilariously awful for the most part. Just people trying to create the illusion of a strong floor and <incoming pump>, scam you, or throw off newbs with fake links and images, incorrect dates/times, etc. Absolute minefield for someone that doesn’t really know what they’re doing. Not to mention the quality and professionalism of the teams for some of the newer drops is just bottom of the barrel low.

    Is this the discord alpha I keep hearing about?

  2. Turning Cardano’s failures into “peer review and academic research does not work” is a very poor take.

    In fact, their failures are largely down to them not doing any real research and listening to peer reviews at all. The correct criticism here is “Cardano’s research is bad” and “Cardano’s lack of peer review is why they failed”.

    Research is critical for any blockchain project, and the greater Ethereum ecosystem has demonstrated precisely why.

  3. So today I decided to sit down and watch Charles’ [hour and five minute “Smart Contracts and Beyond” lecture](https://youtu.be/FVA54yAaLC8) instead of binging anime like I probably should have.

    While much of what Charles says in his latest video is true, and the lecture generally makes sense, *and* it’s genuinely useful for understanding Cardano’s approach better – a few of the most important points are either wrong or based on an outdated understanding of Ethereum, so it ends up undermining what I would argue is the point of the lecture – addressing the limitations of Cardano’s design space compared to the incumbent. Beyond that, the main takeaway of the lecture seems to be “you were expecting fully functional smart contracts on the 12th? Well most of it will be off-chain anyways, just like Ethereum’s rollups. No, we haven’t actually built any of this yet. It will come in time, just keep being patient.”

    The first issue I take is his purported impossibility of making deterministic transactions on Ethereum – it’s trivially possible if you just avoid shared state in your contract. There’s nothing stopping you from using off-chain sequencing in Ethereum to prevent on-chain resource contention like is required with Cardano UTxOs. The difference is that with Ethereum you get to choose whether to do this or to use the default implicit concurrency model of shared contract state. No mention of MEV and how it’s related to concurrency and critical in off-chain dex design, by the way.

    He’s also wrong about Ethereum’s plan to scale using execution shards (in his words “different computation domains, ahh, starting to look a bit like a Cardano style architecture”). If you take the phrase “different computation domains” literally, Ethereum already has that with rollups. He doesn’t seem to be aware of data sharding or the rollup-centric scaling roadmap that was posted a year ago to contextualize them.

    There’s no talk about how contract composition could work in an off-chain world in a decentralized way – hand waved as future work.

    He says that “all of their benchmarking” point to Cardano contract transactions costing “two orders of magnitude” less than Ethereum contract transactions. What benchmarks, and do they involve the Cardano chain processing over a million transactions per day at that price like the Ethereum network does (or an order of magnitude higher if you include rollups)?

    He talks about how the difference between Cardano and Ethereum is that Cardano has a strong root of trust, so that if any off-chain solutions blow up and fail, it “doesn’t destroy the main chain”. It’s not clear why he doesn’t consider Ethereum’s consensus layer to be a root of trust in a similar respect, or why protecting the main chain from off-chain shenanigans is a property that’s unique to Cardano.

    Everything about this lecture screams to me “I haven’t looked at the design of Ethereum since 2017, I’m unaware of their current roadmap, I’m unaware of the problems they’ve solved since 2017, and while they are busy solving those problems in an incremental and practical way, I am talking at a whiteboard about how someone could solve them in a theoretically perfect way while building tools at a five year lag behind the rest of the industry.”

    It feels like an admission that Cardano isn’t a system for building useful smart contracts, it’s a system for building systems for building useful smart contracts, and now that Cardano’s eUTxO support is done, it’s time to start building a system on top of it that will allow us to write useful smart contracts. It’s really the long game, let’s see how it works out.

    It’s kind of surreal that he spends part of the video strawmanning and otherwise attacking the people he believes are attacking him but are just raising design questions. First his bubble-sort stuff, then from Charles at 40:20 – “They basically say well if you don’t support my thing, and I don’t see a way to make my thing work, what you have constructed is absolutely useless, forever useless, and is just a toy. Then they use vanity metrics without even understanding what they’re saying. You’re only at this performance level (well, just increase the block size) – oh well, okay.” Well no, Charles. That’s not really what people are saying.

    42:15 “Reddit won’t agree, Telegram won’t agree, Twitter won’t agree, guys it’s noise and it’s FUD.” Reddit, Twitter and Telegram have some knowledgeable people on them if you filter out the noise. Can’t just deflect all criticism like that.

    44:20 “If you still don’t like the model, well then, just take the other model that you guys like. There you go. And just live in that model, and all that tooling is reusable, but the difference is they run on Proof of Work right now and they’re super fucking expensive and we’re gonna run on OBFT right now, it’s kind of like what Binance Smart Chain is doing right now and it’s a lot fucking cheaper.” Charles do you understand how close the Proof of Stake merge is? The estimate is within six months. As a fraction of the total time Ethereum has been around as a smart contract system, Ethereum has 7% left to go. By the time Cardano runs its first decentralized dex in production probably in March of next year at the earliest, Ethereum will be Proof of Stake. And the most important part is that Ethereum is not even hurting for it, because Ethereum’s Proof of Work root of trust already works great and is pretty cheap to run for another 6 months in the big scheme of things.

    48:35 “There are no standards in the industry yet. The so-called market standard, Ethereum, is literally upgrading itself to a radically different design.” Yeah, under the hood. From a user, developer, and marketing standpoint, the network will function nearly identically. The standard, the APIs, stay the same.

    54:10 “A lot of people out there that are cynical assholes, and no matter what we announce, no matter what we do, they’re just going to poo-poo it. Either because they don’t understand it, they don’t like it, they don’t value it, or they have an economic incentive to lie.” Put me in the “don’t value it” category. And it’s not even that I don’t value it as a research project – I absolutely do. I just don’t value it as a valid path to become an industry standard.

    58:10 “Ethereum’s still trying to figure out how to build that proof of stake root of trust, not only are we there, ours is secure … we also understand how to build secondary chains that can connect on. We’re still working on that.” But Ethereum already has a Proof of Work root of trust that works great AND already has secondary chains (rollups). Furthermore, Ethereum isn’t still “trying to figure out how to build” a PoS root of trust, Charles must have missed the merge spec finalization in June of this year, its last “how to build” document.

    1:04:30 “You can listen to Reddit, or you can listen to Twitter, and basically just say ‘well this guy said something, this person tweeted something, and therefore all of that doesn’t matter, the code doesn’t matter, the actual running applications come the 12th, those don’t matter, I saw something and therefore opinion wrong.’ Okay! If that’s where you live, live in that world. The people who are here, who are actually building and doing, don’t live in that world” Looking forward to seeing those actual running applications come the 12th. By that point, Ethereum will have a budding DApp ecosystem on Arbitrum. Cheers Charles.

  4. *This is the second update in a series. [Part 1 can be read here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/pbsnnw/daily_general_discussion_august_26_2021/hafmnvg/).*

    Over [200,000 ETH](https://ultrasound.money/) (worth around $780 million) has now been burned thanks to EIP-1559. If the amount of burned ETH belonged to a single account, it would rank as the [38th largest](https://etherscan.io/accounts/1?ps=100) ETH wallet in existence.

    Going from 0 to 100,000 ETH burned took around 21 days, for an average of ~4,761 ETH burned per day. Going from 100,001 to 200,000 ETH burned took around 9 days, for an average of ~11,111 ETH burned per day.

    Currently the 10th largest ETH wallet, [Huobi 18](https://etherscan.io/address/0x229b5c097f9b35009ca1321ad2034d4b3d5070f6), holds just over 657,000 ETH. Based on the all-time average burn rate (4.54 ETH/minute) and current account holders, the total amount of burned ETH will enter the top 10 accounts on November 13, 2021. It will then take less than 6 months to break into the **top 3** accounts (2.29 million ETH), hitting that milestone on May 12, 2022.

    *Note: Burned ETH is not literally being held in any account, this is just a useful metaphor to show just how much ETH is being burned.*

  5. Okay, so long time eth holder, but I do have a question. As a developer that focuses a lot on good UX, I was wondering, do you all agree that while L2 scaling is pretty cool, we do need it to basically be abstracted away from the average user?

    I mean I consider myself pretty knowledgeable and even I canโ€™t be bothered to do all the steps for bridging etc. Not to mention it costs quite a lot to transfer to L2 and back. Itโ€™s just not user friendly enough for your average joe (or just in general).

    Right now the whole โ€œL2โ€™s are already hereโ€ argument against gas fees is technically correct, however very unusable imo. Thatโ€™s honestly the biggest pain point.

    Sure L2 is the future and scaling can only properly happen with L2โ€™s, but the bigger problem is getting dApps/contracts to abstract all these pain points away.

    Thoughts?

  6. Not sure if anyone posted this yet, but some shadowy super coder on twitter posted some alpha for the “more loot” drop happening right now:

    Its a list of “rarest items” in order of priority:

    https://twitter.com/_anishagnihotri/status/1434220175268749320

    [https://github.com/Anish-Agnihotri/dhof-loot/blob/master/derivatives/temporal-loot/output/top-10k.json](https://github.com/Anish-Agnihotri/dhof-loot/blob/master/derivatives/temporal-loot/output/top-10k.json)

    Lots of people were advising not to mint as the outstanding supply is massive (1.3M variations) but this list changes that.

    Here’s the contract link: https://etherscan.io/address/0x1dfe7Ca09e99d10835Bf73044a23B73Fc20623DF#writeContract

  7. The good news is that Cardano will be spending the next several months on defense, so they won’t have time to post exaggerated ETH gas fee screenshots anymore. The bad news is that BTC maxis have all the time in the world, since there’s nothing to do with Bitcoin, and they’ll continue with their regularly scheduled FUD.

  8. Dude you guys look at this: https://opensea.io/collection/lootproject

    There’s only 2,500 owners of this project.

    This is getting fucking absurd man. I know value is weird but like how many people need to claim a thing is worth something before people immediately see it as bullshit?! Like what if there were 1,250 people holding? 625? 312?

    The only thing that is keeping these freaking boats floating is influencers pushing it as real on the unsuspecting public, and the few “regular” people who got in who now become relentless marketers to keep the $$ flowing.

    Edit: words

๐Ÿ”ฅDXB Presales Ends in The next few days | Pre-Sale purchase price $0.05 — Pancake Swap listing initial price will be $0.15

another SKLZ shitpost, except with actual DD this time